Counterpoints

… to Dan’s post. (This was originally a comment, but then it got really long, so I thought it might work better as a post)

Interesting.

Where are you getting this name “Esua” from, by the way? I don’t remember that being used in the episode. I can only assume you’re pulling from the Biblical Jacob’s brother, who was named “Esau”, but is that just something you made up or was it in the show somewhere?

Some counter-points:

… he thinks Jacob has been in the game for a while now but I’m thinking *everything* up until the last 2 minutes of the finale (including the previous seasons) has been an elaborate scheme by Esua

“Everything”? How come? I think the most obvious conclusion is that both of them have been manipulating people all along as pawns in whatever game they’re playing against each other.

Unless I’m remembering it incorrectly, Jacob even admits to bringing the black rock people there at the beginning of the episode. Which of the two of them is responsible for the 815 crash (and any of the other people on the island) is anyone’s guess, and it could even be both of them, each for different agendas.

Of course we won’t know this until/if more is revealed, but for now I’m going on the assumption that they both have had a hand in manipulating a lot of the people we’ve seen on the show so far, and it’s deliberately ambiguous at this point which of them was involved in most of those instances.

I believe that Jacob was influencing the losties in the last episode in order to –reverse– the current timeline that they’re on, with one exception (get to that after).

It’s still (again, intentionally) up in the air whether they changed anything with that bomb or caused it. It could go either way (I’m leaning towards them causing it rather than changing things), so because of that, their actions in that regard could have been influenced by either of the two players, or perhaps even neither one.

So far, all the evidence we’ve seen points to Faraday being right about “what happened, happened” and the immutability theory. His brief trip into “variable” land in his final episode shortly before his death was interesting, but certainly still unproven, since he still ended up dying.

Back to the recurring theme of deliberate uncertainty, they have not yet answered the question of whether the past and/or future can be changed by their actions. Of course, it could go either way, but I’m currently leaning towards “no”.

The only way for Jacob not to be killed at the end of S5 is for the losties to never arrive at the island.

That’s not necessarily true. Assuming it’s possible for him to orchestrate things to prevent his death at all (which is not necessarily the case, see above) there are multiple ways he could have done this, and my bet is that both of the players have multiple concurrent strategies in action at any given time, hoping that they pay off or at least serve to keep their opponent in check.

Esua made up the entire plan to kill Jacob around the time Ben arrived, he influenced Desmond to not push the button (I’m thinking Esua was Kelvin), the plane crashes, he then orchestrates the entire scheme behind Locke and Ben.

I like my Kelvin/Jacob association better, just because I think it’s a better story
angle, but of course that could go either way.

I also, think at the same time he’s set a plan to kill Esua if he is killed, by gathering the “what lays in the shadow” group.

They could twist this in later, but so far I don’t see that Jacob necessarily has any interest in killing his opponent. Just because he desires to kill Jacob, that doesn’t mean the feeling’s mutual.