Archive for May, 2009

Random Theories, Observations and Ramblings

Published by
dancameron
9 months, 4 weeks ago in Theory. 0 Comments

I’m re-watching the S5 finale and I’ve thought up some more theories:

  1. Maybe Jacob and Esau (other guy) are the same. I don’t really like this theory but I might as well throw it out there.
  2. Esau is the (smoke) “monster”. He was also Ben’s daughter when she told him to follow Locke (obviously).
  3. Since Esau is the smoke monster what is Jacob’s power/ability? I think it’s time travel and the electro magnetism on the island. This gives him the ability summon ships and planes to the island.
  4. Jacob wants to prove Esau wrong (beginning of S5 finale), I think he wants to prove them wrong by showing them people can be selfless and have compassion–maybe something Esau doesn’t have. Esau did say they were destructive and conquering but Jacob talks about progress.
  5. Jacob recruited Elana and the new group to help him: going back to my last post I have a feeling one circumstance was to make sure Sayid came to the island. It makes sense he recruited help but never knew that Esau would use Locke’s form. That’s why Elana and the group never did anything about Locke when he was with them on the other island. Not until they found the body did they figure they had to do something.
  6. After re-watching the episode it’s obvious it was Locke in the box.
  7. It annoys me that Kate was always against the bomb but at the end she was fighting side by side. At least Juliet’s indecision was based on something.
  8. Locke never saw Jacob in the cabin, another obvious point, it was Esau mid plan to kill Jacob and manipulate Ben.
  9. Locke is and never was someone, in Richard’s words “there was nothing special about him”.
  10. Here’s a big one, why did Jacob not want Dan to go to the island? Remember he was picked up by the same group as Elana in the van. What did he do that Jacob wanted to prevent?
  11. Dharma ended up being an observation experiment for Jacob, maybe to prove something to Esau. That’s why they’re gated from the “monster”.
  12. Since Dharma is part of Jacob’s experiment I think the original Others are led by Esau more than Jacob. Even though Richard has that direct connection with Jacob. Maybe at some point Jacob just went into hiding while Esau took his place.

I still think the last season of the show will be about the real Jacob and the new events since the bomb. “New events” meaning: the bomb did change the course of the future/present.

Counterpoints

Published by
jared
10 months ago in General. 1 Comment

… to Dan’s post. (This was originally a comment, but then it got really long, so I thought it might work better as a post)

Interesting.

Where are you getting this name “Esua” from, by the way? I don’t remember that being used in the episode. I can only assume you’re pulling from the Biblical Jacob’s brother, who was named “Esau”, but is that just something you made up or was it in the show somewhere?

Some counter-points:

… he thinks Jacob has been in the game for a while now but I’m thinking *everything* up until the last 2 minutes of the finale (including the previous seasons) has been an elaborate scheme by Esua

“Everything”? How come? I think the most obvious conclusion is that both of them have been manipulating people all along as pawns in whatever game they’re playing against each other.

Unless I’m remembering it incorrectly, Jacob even admits to bringing the black rock people there at the beginning of the episode. Which of the two of them is responsible for the 815 crash (and any of the other people on the island) is anyone’s guess, and it could even be both of them, each for different agendas.

Of course we won’t know this until/if more is revealed, but for now I’m going on the assumption that they both have had a hand in manipulating a lot of the people we’ve seen on the show so far, and it’s deliberately ambiguous at this point which of them was involved in most of those instances.

I believe that Jacob was influencing the losties in the last episode in order to –reverse– the current timeline that they’re on, with one exception (get to that after).

It’s still (again, intentionally) up in the air whether they changed anything with that bomb or caused it. It could go either way (I’m leaning towards them causing it rather than changing things), so because of that, their actions in that regard could have been influenced by either of the two players, or perhaps even neither one.

So far, all the evidence we’ve seen points to Faraday being right about “what happened, happened” and the immutability theory. His brief trip into “variable” land in his final episode shortly before his death was interesting, but certainly still unproven, since he still ended up dying.

Back to the recurring theme of deliberate uncertainty, they have not yet answered the question of whether the past and/or future can be changed by their actions. Of course, it could go either way, but I’m currently leaning towards “no”.

The only way for Jacob not to be killed at the end of S5 is for the losties to never arrive at the island.

That’s not necessarily true. Assuming it’s possible for him to orchestrate things to prevent his death at all (which is not necessarily the case, see above) there are multiple ways he could have done this, and my bet is that both of the players have multiple concurrent strategies in action at any given time, hoping that they pay off or at least serve to keep their opponent in check.

Esua made up the entire plan to kill Jacob around the time Ben arrived, he influenced Desmond to not push the button (I’m thinking Esua was Kelvin), the plane crashes, he then orchestrates the entire scheme behind Locke and Ben.

I like my Kelvin/Jacob association better, just because I think it’s a better story
angle, but of course that could go either way.

I also, think at the same time he’s set a plan to kill Esua if he is killed, by gathering the “what lays in the shadow” group.

They could twist this in later, but so far I don’t see that Jacob necessarily has any interest in killing his opponent. Just because he desires to kill Jacob, that doesn’t mean the feeling’s mutual.

Love and Hate

Published by
dancameron
10 months ago in General. 1 Comment

Jacob can only influence through love.
Esau can only influence through anger or hate.

That’s why the whole love triangle influenced the events of the last season with the bomb and anger/hate influenced the killing of Jacob.

Esua’s story up until now…

Published by
dancameron
10 months ago in General and Theory. 7 Comments

Jared just made me think a little bit about who is influencing who for the last 5 seasons, he thinks Jacob has been in the game for a while now but I’m thinking everything up until the last 2 minutes of the finale (including the previous seasons) has been an elaborate scheme by Esua (who Locke is now) to kill Jacob. When I say everything I mean everything but the instances where you actually see Jacob influencing in the S5 finale.

I believe that Jacob was influencing the losties in the last episode in order to –reverse– the current timeline that they’re on, with one exception (get to that after). The only way for Jacob not to be killed at the end of S5 is for the losties to never arrive at the island. I’m basing this off of how Jacob influenced in the last episode and how the writers love to bring in a character’s past influences to explain their current decision.

  • Sawyer: Jacob influenced him to continue his vengefulness by allowing him to continue to write to (the original Sawyer). Otherwise, “what’s done is done” could have influenced him enough to not change his mind and help Jack. This one is a stretch but the whole theory is.
  • Jack and Kate: Not sure if there’s a direct influence but it’s the little things that could have helped them make their decisions about the bomb.
  • Juliet: I don’t remember Jacob in Juliet’s but her flashback showed she needed to let go of Sawyer (literally)
  • Hurley: pretty much single handedly pushed Hurley back to the island.

Hurley’s was the big one for me since I asked myself “why would Jacob want Hurley and these losties back”, obviously (IMO) to reverse the past to change the future.

Basically, I believe:

Esua made up the entire plan to kill Jacob around the time Ben arrived, he influenced Desmond to not push the button (I’m thinking Esua was Kelvin), the plane crashes, he then orchestrates the entire scheme behind Locke and Ben.

At the same time, Jacob sees Esua’s influence towards the end and creates some counter measures in order to change the present by correcting the past. I also, think at the same time he’s set a plan to kill Esua if he is killed, by gathering the “what lays in the shadow” group.

My theory about S6-Esua will be killed within the first episode by Richard or the new group.

update:

I’m thinking now that the reason Jacob wasn’t so direct in influencing some of the characters (Jack, Kate and Sawyer) was because at the time of his visit he didn’t know the entire endgame. That makes sense why he doesn’t just let Locke die. But when he visits Hurley he knows he needs them all to be in the past to detonate that bomb.

Also, notice how Jacob visited the people that he needed in the past? Further backing up my theory about him needing them in the past to change the “incident”. And that’s why Sun and Ben were left behind, which were part of Esau’s plan.

Season 5 Finale Thoughts

Published by
jared
10 months ago in General. 2 Comments

So now it appears that the black & white, yin/yang symbolism is a reference to the struggle that’s been going on for a long time between Jacob (white) and the other guy (darker clothes in the beginning scene).

I’m assuming that most of the smoke monster appearances (in cloud form, and the accompanying instances of dead people impersonations) have been one of these two in some form. I suspect it was the dark guy (black cloud) in most cases, although I think Locke mentioned the cloud being white when he saw it, which perhaps was a manifestation of Jacob.

Either could have also been behind some (all, more likely) of the other appearances of people who have been dead, etc. I think that depending on the role they played (or will play) in the unfolding drama, I think that most of the “dead people” appearances have been one of the two of them.

One angle I think would be interesting if they explored it was whether Kelvin (the guy in the hatch with Desmond and earlier with Sayid in Iraq) was actually Jacob, making a few chess-match moves similar to those we saw in this episode.

Assuming that Jacob’s dark opponent was grooming Ben early on in preparation for the moment we see at the end of this episode, could Jacob have been attempting to counter that (and other things) by influencing things (appearing as Kelvin) in the following ways:

  1. Influencing Sayid in some way to become who he eventually became and leading him towards the island, in an attempt to set him up to counter (and hopefully kill) Ben, before Ben could kill Jacob.
  2. Putting the pieces in place for Desmond to miss pressing the button and causing the plane to crash. It was chasing Kelvin out (and eventually killing him, even though his body later “disappeared”) that led to Desmond pressing the button late and causing the crash, an event that certainly seems to have been anticipated / orchestrated by Jacob, based on what we’ve seen so far.